Primarily because AMD tends to focus more on per core performance as opposed to overall performance. Granted, the FX series is somewhat lackluster at best, leaving many unimpressed, but that is rather non-sequitor for them as a whole, and I've always had better success with AMDs than comparible Intel systems over the years. Granted, I don't really use much multi-threaded software, but the point is, they are improving over time, and I believe them to be improving at a faster rate than Intel, making up ground in the areas where Intel has them beat while still maintaining superior performance in the areas where they've always had the edge.
Intel multicore processors tend to get a little....redundant in their thread caching which does give them the edge in single threaded apps, but it tends to get a little cluttered in the background, which does hinder per core performance in the long run and the extra time wasted with the redundant L2 and L3 caching causes it to just bog down at times in ways I've never experienced with an AMD processor.
Don't get me wrong, I used to love Intel and always had an Intel system up until the release of the second gen P4s, never realizing AMD processors don't experience the sort of.....micro lag....that Intel systems seem to suffer from. When I got a PC from a friend with a 3200+ in it, I was AMAZED at the difference in overall system performance compared to the pretty much comparably equipped P4 system I had prior.
Not to mention that almost all of the current software and apps out there are still single threaded, so the multithread superiority of the FX series will go largely un-noticed because most multithread apps are games anyway. Which is why I find it odd you feel it isn't worth it as a gaming desktop because the multithread capabilities of the FX series sounds like it should give you the edge, but apparently doesn't.
And no, I haven't actually picked up anything yet because I'm prolly gonna wait for a few months to pick up the MB and processor as like a bundled pack.
Although at this point, I'm prolly gonna go Sempron T-1100; not as new, but still kickass performance, PLUS, since the introduction of their new lines of processors, retailers are scrambling to get rid of their 'older' CPUs and what have you, so I'll get way more bang for my buck going that route.
Specially if I manage to score something on a Black Friday discount or something.
And no, I haven't actually picked up anything yet because I'm prolly gonna wait for a few months to pick up the MB and processor as like a bundled pack.
Sigh...
[soap box]
Really, if you're at all budget constrained and aren't planning on making the purchase immediately, then it's pretty futile to debate which parts you want to go with. Never, ever buy part of a new system build before you're ready to buy the rest. While it's fine to price-shop over a period of a week or two, looking for good deals, if you stretch that out to a month or more, the "deal" you got on one component a month ago usually won't be such a deal by the time you buy the rest. Prices can change just that quickly.
While normally I would agree with you, considering the very recent launch of the new Bulldozer processors, I seriously doubt AMD will be releasing anything new any time soon. I've actually considered the nightmare of buying a single component, waiting to buy the rest, and then money being wasted because something better came along in the time being. All in all, I'm prolly going to wind up going Sempron due to the unimpressive per core performance of the new FX series, but again, much to your advice, I'm going to keep an idea of what I want in my head, doubtful it will change, but will always be flexible enough to shift as needed per changes in the overall market.
And when I said I was going to wait a few months, I meant THAT is when I was going to buy the entire system as a whole but was waiting until I could find a good deal on the MB/Processor as a combo deal now that the teh Sempron is supposedly 'old news'. At that time I'll get the CPU, MB, Memory, and heatsink all at once, installing it into the tower I already have built.
I may or may not replace the HDD as I have plenty of external storage, but have been looking for a good internal Mass storage drive I can just add on top of the current system.
Granted, I'll have to re-install the OS no matter what, but if all I can afford is the new system, I can just use the current HDD for the time being and pick up another hard drive a few months down the line. Digital storage is pretty fluid and easily replaceable in today's market.
PSU, optical and tower are all relatively new, as is my current system itself. It's just not as powerful as I'd like it to be, that's all.
Besides, I have to replace the heatsink with something more low profile anyway, so I'm just gonna go ahead and just do it all at once while I'm in there because this tower is a monster.
I wasn't thinking so much about new processors coming out, but rather the prices fluctuating so rapidly on what's already out there. Even if you know exactly what part you want, a few weeks can make a huge difference in the price of that exact part, just due to supply and demand in the marketplace.
Speaking of which, hold off on a new hard drive for as long as you can. The flooding in Asia is causing prices to spike, so if you can make do with what you've got for a few months, your wallet will thank you!
Hmmmmm....I've only got .34 T left on the external, but that should last for awhile depending on how full I can stuff it.
As far as storage drives go, how much free space do they need in order to continue operating efficiently?
I always keep at least 10% free on the C drive or else it starts to bog down the virtual memory; does the same hold true for media storage drives as well, or can I take it down to like 1% and still use it to watch movies and stuff?
Just got offered a blank check to buy a netbook/ipad-like device.
What would you guys recommend? Don't necessarily need a keyboard, but that would be nice. Would appreciate a built in camera so I can skype from the couch.
So new Asus brushed aluminum netbook, iPad2, different tablet, different netbook, mac of some kind?
I have no experience with this device, and I don't think anyone does, if an android tablet is anything you would want the transformer 2 looks pretty sweet. Likely Asus build quality, keyboard dock, ICS, and Tegra 3? Yes please!
Just thought I'd toss in an "I love my iPad 2" before the anti-Apple haters start. The MacBook Air is next on my list, depending on just how blank that check is.
Needless to say, I returned it. Newegg has given me a refund so I need to figure out what card to buy -- do I get another Radeon HD 5770 and hope this one works or is there another one that's just as good?
I've linked my motherboard, processor, and power supply. Let me know if you need to know about any other parts. At the moment, I'm just using the integrated sound card.
I'm looking to spend between $100 and $150 but, depending on the card, could be talked up to $200.
I have an ATi 5870 graphics card in my laptop and I cannot fault it, so I recommend one of those. Having one bad graphics card doesn't mean that the same one (if not by a different manufacturer) would have the same problems. I had a GeForce 570 GTX develop fan problems, so I sent that back and got a similar one. My new one is pretty much the same only the fan works properly.
I believe that the appropriate RAM that you'll need for that motherboard is DDR3 2000 at 1,333MHz (but don't quote me on that in case I got it wrong.)
I also recommend that you gret a SSD HDD or at least a 6Gb p/s HDD to make the most of that computer.
What Operating System do you want to have on there? I recommend Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (or Professional 64-bit), but only if you need the extra features.)
I shouldn't post late at night. I tend to be a bit incoherent.
My rig is all built and ready to go -- the issues I mentioned above with the graphics card are why I've turned to this community to help. The full stats on my computer:
Processor: AMD Phenom II X6 Black Edition Deneb Motherboard: ASUS M4A88TD-Z EVO/USB3 Video Card: HIS H577FM1GD Radeon HD 577- 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x 16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Power: Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus RS700-PCAAE3-US 700W ATX 12V v2.3 Active PFC Power Supply CD/DVD: LG Blu-Ray Player Case: Centurion CAC-T05 OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 'TP-Link TL-WN722N Wireless adapter The graphics card is what I'm replacing, as the original one listed above developed a habit of not turning on with the rest of the computer, which meant that the machine would turn itself off once it started overheating. I'm leaning towards just getting the same one as before but wanted to see if anyone could think of anything else that would work with my other parts.
Okay, here comes the old as time question, AMD or Nvidia?
Specifically 550 or 6790, or at least something very close to that price range.
My system is quite dated so my new years resolution will be to GET CURRENT! But that's a bit down the line, video card is right around the corner.
So tell me which I should get or if you have suggestions then please, throw them my way.
Any brand preference here? Personally I'll shy away from Sapphire after my last experience. And what do you guys think of MSI's cyclone line and Zotac cards? I know you trade higher temps for a little performance gain, but is it worth it? Or will I be frying omelets from the comfort of my office chair?
And I see that the 7 series cards are due very soon, anyone know how long it generally takes for us to start seeing budget cards?
What are the specifications of your current computer?
I bought an NVIDIA card about 4-5 years ago which was made by XFX. I was impressed with the build quality and performance, if I had to buy another card again I'd choose a NVIDIA card made by XFX. I hope that answers your question.
Sadly I have not had long enough to tell you what my NVIDIA 570GTX card is like (and I can't remember who made it) in terms of how well they're made but performance on that is fantastic and so far I have not had any problems with it.
Asus M3A78-CM (it was cheap) AMD Phenom X3 8450 4gb ddr2 @ 800 HD 4550 And plenty of power to spare.
The 4550 is about a million years old, I actually started this system with different, and better, card but it failed. And then another card failed. And suddenly I was an archeologist digging for some ancient relic to stick in my computer.
According to Toms hardware the 550 can't hold a candle to it's competitor, can anyone attest to that. Is the difference in performance big on paper or does it really show in games?
And to be fair to the little card in my case right now it actually plays a lot of games at mid settings, not at full resolution mind you. And it's lasted for quite a while so good job Visiontek.
Tom's Hardware does pretty exhaustive testing, both in raw numbers and actual gameplay, so they're my bible when it comes to GPU performance. Their recommendation in your price range is definitely the Radeon HD 6790, so I'd probably go with that one over the nVidia GTX 550 Ti. You'd have to spend at least another $50 to get an nVidia card that can touch the 6790.
Hmm, that's too bad, I was hoping to finally stick my hands into the Nvidia cookie jar. I'll just have to put it off till next purchase.
That being done with I do have one other question, and again it's a classic (although a current version of a classic). I'm looking to throw a FX 4100 into my new build, I'm fairly set on it so this isn't so much a "help me choose" as a "reaffirm my beliefs."
I can already hear the Intel fan boys (or girls as it may be) in the background... But from my understanding the FX 4100 will offer performance pretty dead even with a 2500k, and at half the price that sounds pretty good to me.
Unless I'm mistaken?
I just saw part of a similar discussion at the top of the page so there's no need to get deep into it you don't feel up to it, just a simple answer will do.
Understand that "dead even" is a relative term. To me %10 performance difference isn't even considered, and even more significant difference isn't going to detour me. I am, above all, a tightwad.
And I don't particularly care about benchmark performance and whatnot, real world is more important. I imagine both cpus can handle most things I throw at it without and problem and that's all that matters to me. I was just curious about slamming game X up to ultra settings, will the FX still handle it with relative ease?
I love Toms Hardware and the like, it's interesting and useful stuff. But they tend to overlook the real world element of things and just focus on numbers and bragging rights.
I've got to be honest here - I am an Intel fanboy at the moment but I have also created some machines (and heard of others building) AMD powered machines with Phenom X6 processors (or better) and my laptop has an ATi graphics card. I cannot fault any of them.
I've not heard much about the Bulldozer processors and certainly not heard anything bad. I built a cheap computer in 2004 and it was still being used until 8-9 months ago, so cheap ones can still perform well and last a long time . I can certainly understand (and so can many others) what it is like to build a computer on a tight budget. So if you feel that you can build a new computer that is still very good for a low price then I think you should do it.
Admitting it is the first step, now we can get you the help you need.
Low price is also a relative term, when the time comes, I'll try to keep it near the $700 mark. But I should be able to build a pretty decent rig, even more so If I use my old case and PS. But I'd really like to make a new one and put the old one to use doing something else.
Speaking of cases; Anyone know any cases with great airflow that are easy on the wallet? It seems like $100 is the going rate for good cases, less than that would be good though. Any pennies I can pinch will mean an upgrade on the important stuff.
It's really hard to recommend a case for someone else, since style is such a matter of personal taste. If you link to a couple of cases you like and list a few must-have features, I can probably find you some budget options. Any pennies you can save on the case will help you snag a better PSU and still stay within your budget.
No style preferences I'm afraid, strictly performance minded. And I don't really have any specific feature in mind. My current case is big and featureless. Just something with good air flow that isn't too drab.
I saw this somewhere earlier and though it was interesting, mostly because it looks like it could put out small forest fires and the ability to change LED colors was neat. But It's a lot more expensive then what I had in mind.
Cooler Master and Apex are my go-to brands for budget cases with solid feature sets. I have personal experience with this one and this one, and both are great for their price range. They have similar internal layouts, with good GPU clearance, plenty of drive bays, and large CPU cutouts in the motherboard trays for easy mounting of heatsinks. Solid construction in both, and the interiors painted, which is a nice touch.
The Apex gets the nod for a more completely tool-free design and including both front and rear fans. The Cooler Master gets props for putting the PSU mount on the bottom, which reduces cable clutter and can therefore improve airflow. Whether you prefer a side-panel window or not is what likely tips the balance between the two.
Rosewill is also worth taking a look at. They're Newegg's house label, and they offer a pretty wide variety of cases at budget prices. Just remember that as a re-brander, their quality varies just as widely, so make sure to read the reviews. I've had good experiences with Rosewill cases in the past, though.
Yeah, that's MY case! And although I've never tried putting out small forest fires with it, it is without a doubt one of the best airflow cases on the market for a slightly more upscale enthusiast or power gamer. The fully blown Xclio cases feature THREE of them 250 MM fans on the front and I'm sure you COULD put out a- erm, yes, back to cooling efficiency. Wow....that is expensive cuz I got mine eight months ago for 80 bucks and it's definitely excellent for positive airflow through the entire case.
Assuming you don't mind a little bit of mod time that is.
It also has an excellent feature on the reverse side as well not included in most online reviews: there is enough spare case space below the MB deck you can drill out some vent holes and mount a fan for cooling the underside of the the board; something almost always overlooked when powergamers build a system.
And they wonder why they aren't getting top performance out of their gear???
Anyway, on the outside, it's 'The Little Light Bright That Could' that grew up to be a jet engine, but on the inside, it's a fully adaptable blank slate that can be built to meet just about any demands. It's also surprisingly quiet, even with all three case fans turned up to max.
Not to mention the fact you can see it for miles and I could mount it to tower at the local airport and land 747's with it....
Not to mention the fact you can see it for miles and I could mount it to tower at the local airport and land 747's with it....
Yeah, we have them at my local airport, use them as comm units in the control towers, makes it like a big light house. We also keep one aboard planes at all times. It's great for when you lose an engine, just hook on of those fans in it's place and you're good to go. It really embarrasses the boys at GE though, a million dollar engine that needs tons of high grade fuel and a $20 case fan can do it just as well with a few watts.
I found a few options I liked, thanks for the help folks.
Actually, it's $25 for a new case fan, but still, don't tell Lockheed, they'd have a heart attack, a stroke, and three kittens each.
In all honesty, it's a bit of a white Elephant owning it, but not too much of one because again, replacement parts for it aren't entirely too expensive. I just have to put a bit of mod time into it because the manufacturer doesn't sell 'direct replacements' in regards to the wiring, but rather sells it as part of a general install kit with a slot card and a wired remote control and such. So I just have to change out the connector on the end real fast in order to just plug it into the wiring harness directly, but then again, I do have all these neat little extras I could play around with and maybe wire up a remote a few feet away for the display controls and an overall VR to control the flow of all three fans at once.
It's definitely a computer hobby enthusiasts dream because it gives you something to work on that's reliable enough to get consistent performance out of, but requires 'the right amount' of tinkering for it to be truly FUN, yaknow? Something tells me most people in this thread are like that and they don't want their computer stuff to be too easy, or else it wouldn't be any fun at all to play with.
Granted, I've already had to replace the side case fan because it went out after a few months, but that was only due to the physical obstruction of it running into the top of the heatsink and bending it all outtah shape. The one on the front is the exact same kind of case fan, and has performed flawlessly this entire time so I have no complaints there. As of right now, I'm holding off on installing the new side case fan for the time being because I need to change out the heatsink anyway, I'm upgrading to a Sempron in a few months, and I'll just do everything then.
On a side note: the inlet fans are so effective, I can still run a dual core 64x Athlon with relatively little trouble performance wise on just one 250MM inlet fan and one 120MM outlet(other than the two on the PSU). They have so much positive airflow that even when the cases inlet airflow is reduced by half, it still works just fine with the side can fan removed, using it as an added air vent.
Granted, I also have a Rosewill 650A power supply with a 120CM inlet fan that greatly helps to encourage airflow through the case as well, but still, that says something about the individual cooling capacity for each fan. I did miss the part about you not wanting a tray door though, and I just gottah ask, seriously???
Why not?
That's half the fun right there of owning a power case to begin with because it's one of those ultra cool extras that company will notice; 'Where's your DVD drive?'
Oh, it's behind this neat little magnetic door!
'Oh, KEWL!!!'
Other features I neglected to mention earlier are sturdy case construction; something you notice right out of the box, and is not as flimsy as some of the other cases on the market with that sold cross member coming right across the side with the window. Completely tooless installation of just about everything and the only thing you really need a screwdriver for is securing the MB to the deck and installing the heatsink.
The HDD carriers are something else as well because in ancient times, you'd have to press in on the two tabs on either side at once in order to remove other 'tooless' hard drive trays. With this one, you just grab the plastic handle in the middle, and the outward pressure of pulling on it causes the tabs to release automatically, allowing you to change out hard drives one handed, and in record time.
Plus, I like the feature of being able to turn off the case fans and remove the side panel for easy dusting without actually needing to shut down the computer if it's not doing anything too CPU intensive. Then again, I'm using a Cooler Master Hyper 212 with six direct contact heat riser evap tubes so it's cooling is super efficient to begin with.
Seriously! My heat sink radiator is completely cool to the touch, even when the CPU is running under a heavy load!
'the right amount' of tinkering for it to be truly FUN, yaknow?
Oh that I do, I won't even buy something unless it's going to give me a project to work on for a few hours. You should see me when I go car shopping...
Why? Well I don't quite remember. Mostly because the doors are a hassle, my current case came with a big, clear plastic door that covered (past tense, I took it off the first day I had it) everything but the usb ports. I had to open the door just to turn the thing on. And I have my desk in a corner and my case in the corner, I keep it horizontal against the back wall and have the front towards the wall so I have easy access to my cords. It's a tight little area by the front and I have to snake my hand behind a monitor and a massive sub woofer. Having a door to fiddle with just makes it even more of a nuisance.
And if anyone is curious I decided to go with this, it's not quite as sleek and sexy (because nothing turns a girl on like a well built computer... lol) as some and honestly it's not quite to my taste but the price is right and it offers some great features and pretty great cooling. Now I can't throw a rave with it like someone's case^^^^^^^^^ but It should suffice.
I'm not familiar with the brand, but that looks like a great case for the money. Bottom-mounted PSU, front and rear fans, and the reviews are good. You seem to think that "more fans" always equates to "better cooling", but be aware that's not always the case!
For example, I'm not personally a "fan" of side panel and top blowhole fans, since they can actually jumble up the internal airflow when not implemented properly. Rather than allowing air to flow smoothly from intake to exhaust, you can actually trap pockets of hot air inside your case.
You'll want to choose your fan directions very carefully, and take your CPU and GPU coolers into account in order to ensure air is moving efficiently through a case like that, but otherwise, it looks like a good choice for your needs.
Oh, I'm aware that too many or poorly positioned fans can make things worse. I can't really imagine if that will be the case with this case (oh my) until I have it in front of me. But yes, the fact that it has fans to spare (4 I think), a big side fan, and a fairly large amount of mesh makes me think it will stay pretty cool in there. And if I had to guess I'd say the front and side are intake fans the top and back are exhaust, and the psu is kept separate which is nice because honestly that's the biggest heat generator in my case right now. So I'm anticipating good airflow though though I might reposition the front fan to the bottom (seems like that intake air would hit my hard drives and the power supply and fuddle things up). Then again It might be best served where it is for hard drive cooling.
And heat isn't really a huge concern for me, yes I want to keep things as cool as possible as it's best for them. But I'm not an over clocker and my current and planned pc are very basic one card machines.
Now that I'm considering it a big side fan like that might muck things up the way it's set up from purchase, but that can be fixed easily. Even if that's the case it would still be pretty cool in there, just not as cool as it could be.
It looks like some experimenting may be required, but that sounds like a good bit of fun to me.
The good thing is that you enjoy tinkering, so I'm sure you'll find a fan configuration that suits your hardware components. But yeah, side fans are usually set to exhaust by default, which just sucks out all the air from your front intake before it can cool anything. The bigger the side fan, the bigger the problem.
If it were me, I'd probably set the giant side fan to intake, and configure all the others to exhaust. You'd have to test it, as I obviously can't tell how powerful any of those fans are from a picture, but my hunch is that it would push a lot of air through a case like that!
If you want a side case fan, stick with one that comes with one built in from the manufacturer because they're designed around the idea of having a side case fan which tend to be set to intake from the manufacturer(This one was anyway). Matter of fact, the fan itself is designed to only be installed one way given it's specialized L.E.D. nature, but again, coming from the designer like that REALLY maintains positive air pressure inside the case.
It's designed with vent ports (not fan ports) but actual vent ports on the rear case of the case, the right side panel behind the PSU and MB, and a grill on top right above the PSU. Even with all these extra holes, it still maintains positive air flow and air pressure through all of them (even when running on one intake fan) at all times ensuring no hot air pockets get trapped inside the case.
As far as the side case fan, it's sheer aerodynamics here and if you have a heatsink and fan that blows down onto the CPU instead of across it such as in a windtunnel style heat sink engineered to help promote the wind tunnel airflow theme I built this particular case around.
Now, if you watch Mythbusters and you've seen the ep about trucks with tailgates down possibly saving fuel mileage, you'd know it's a myth because air trapped in the bed (with the gate up) creates a circular air bubble that is constantly rotating, creating a pocket that the incoming air stream rides on top of. And it was this exact same principle I used when building the system and selecting a heatsink because I wanted to use the side case fan as not only a fresh source of air, but also kind of an air bubble that the air stream through the case can sort of ride on.
Granted, you have to play around with the VR's to get the individual fan settings just right because if the side fan is too high or too low, you don't get the stoicheometric thermal interaction of heat transfer between the two intake airstreams, and, like Nybo said, you wind up with hot air pockets stuck inside the case.
Again, it revolves primarily around the heat sink you choose, and with the case you just picked up, yer gonna wanna stick with the wind tunnel theme across the CPU for airflow directivity to maximize cooling efficiency. Whether or not you use air, water, or gas cooling from there on out is pretty much beside the point and entirely up to you, but rarely can one go wrong with sealed sodium heat riser evap tubes!
