But for the record, an Embryo is neither a parasitic organism nor is it a 'part' of the mothers body. It is a separate life-form that has a unique strand of DNA, that IS alive. There is no such thing as Pre-life in this context.
Pro-choice people are not advocating murder. If you want to say that half of the country is evil, you're just plain wrong. You know that pro-choice people are not evil, and are not murderers. If you say this you are full of shit. You know it's not true, we know it's not true. Shut up.
Pro-life people do not hate women. If you want to say that half of the country is evil, you're just plain wrong. You know that pro-life people are not evil, and are not woman-haters. If you say this you are full of shit. You know it's not true, we know it's not true. Shut up.
If you want to say that the other person is evil, then you are not interested in debate, you are interested in imposing your will onto someone else.
This is not a vigilante justice forum, it's a debate and discussion forum. If you're not interested in debate and discussion, find somewhere else to go. You'll be happier.
To be fair, life and society are full of arbitrary things, that don't really make sense.
For instance, the drinking age; people are old enough to die for their country yet not old enough to make a decision on whether or not they wish to drink. Drug laws for the most part are pretty arbitrary.
However, your interpretation of my words was quite innacurate b/c I didn't say that fingerprints made a person, I said, "10 weeks after conception the baby is so fully formed already that it has even developed fingerprints." Simply meaning that a baby is basically close to being totally developed in the physical sense as a person.
Furthermore, I suppose I should've mentioned this but I also believe that arbortion is okay AT ANY TIME if the mother is going to die from it.
Perhaps you are right though BigBen, these may be rather arbitrary beliefs on my part, but I've come to terms with that and how a lot of what people, including myself, can and are quite arbitrary; but often when you have no real scientific answer or logical conclusion that can be agreed upon you will make up arbitrary beliefs; which is okay b/c they are always subject to change... well mine are anyway.
I think what it boils down to is are you a risk taker or not. If you are then abortion is your thing. Look at it this way we dont know when the baby is a baby we really cant tell. So are you willing to take the risk of the baby being alive of not. There might be a chance that you just killed a child or you just simply killed off a few cells we cant really know. But there is something that I do know and that Partcial birth abortion is just WRONG. Just because the child is only half out does not mean that it is not born. Who of you out there would be able to see a baby crying half out and just take a knife and kill it. Because its not "born" Its only half out. Personally at about 6 1/2 months the child is a child. because there is such a thing as early child birth were the child lives. If the child can be taken out of the womb and live then it is a child no doubt. The period before that we just dont know when its a child some people believe as soon as the sperm and egg become one others when the child is completely out of the womb. The question is are you willing to take the risk of killing a child yourself.
I consider myself a Liberal-minded Conservative on this issue. I'd never want an abortion of my own child, but it's not my place to involve myself in someone else's abortion whether by supporting or denying it. I only support the right to their decision on the matter until the the fetus can survive on its own. I understand that sometimes an abortion is necessary because sometimes bad things happen. I'm not happy with it the necessity being there but it is. I feel the same way about welfare and social services. I dislike that they are necessary but poverty happens.
Yes we do use Partial birth way to much but basically thats what we hate the most. I really dont care what people do with there children Its not my bussiness. Most people are really Just against the Partial birth. If that is gotten rid of then im just fine. There are other ways to then waiting till the child is basically born. So thats why we Pro-life people use it alot.
DNA does help to distinguish between me and a tumour or parasite though. The things that are me have my DNA, the things that are not do not. it's not a complete definition of identity by any means, as you've pointed out, but it is a pretty solid indicator of non-identity when DNA differs between organisms. Something might have the same DNA as me and not be me, but if there's no match, you can be sure that other thing is no part of me.
Really, these "partial-birth" abortions are so rare and dangerous that rallying against them as an example of all abortion is a huge strawman. And really, there is no such thing as a "partial-birth abortion". The closest thing is inducing labour with an intra-amniotic infusion. And that is FULL birth, just a premature one.
I didn't say it was a test for the start of life, I said it was an indiactor of whether two organisms share an identity or not. It is not the only criteria, but it is a definite indicator of separateness. I am not my tumour, a mother is not her unborn child, so saying that the two are identical is disingenuous.
I would say full brain activity. At the point when it can think and reason, it's a human. We can't be sure exactly when that point is, so we set a time (say the end of the first trimester) which we are positive is before the fetus has a fully active brain, just to be safe. Then say an abortion is OK before that point because we're positive it doesn't have thought yet. After that, it's only allowed if the mother's life is at stake, because we're really not sure if it's alive at that point.
Look at it this way, an unborn child is, in a way, a parasite. In other situations, it is a person's choice to leave alone or get rid of, a parasite. Technically it is not a parasite, but it is not mutualistic either. It is helping itself, but not really affecting the mother beyond her getting fat. But in other situations people can get rid of creatures with similar relationships. Plus, the fetus is living off of the mother. Kids get kicked out of their parents' house all the time for living off of their money.
Aren't we all parasites as soon as your born you just take from the planet instead of your mother. Humans in no way help the planet. SO i dont know why you are putting a baby as a parasite. Just because the child doesn't help people doesn't mean you can just kill it.